Diversity and inclusion as an idea has been on the agenda of tech companies for years now. But the industry still lacks true inclusion, despite best efforts put forth by heads of diversity, equity and inclusion at these companies.

At TC Sessions: Justice, I spoke with Uber Chief Diversity Officer Bo Young Lee, Netflix VP of Inclusion Strategy for Product Wade Davis and Facebook VP of workplace diversity and inclusion Sandra Altine about the work that still needs to be done, the effects of California’s Proposition 22 and more.

On last summer’s racial justice uprising

Last summer, after the murder of George Floyd and the subsequent collective consciousness around racial injustice in the U.S., many tech companies spoke out about racism and equality. Davis said he was happy to see more people speaking about those issues but also a bit frustrated that “it takes something like that for folks to get truly engaged.”

Davis: And inside of Netflix, one of the things that I was really intentional about is to tell our employees who are not Black, right, to not ask our employees how they feel but for them to be much more introspective of what it felt like for them, right, as a white person, or however they identify for them to do the introspection. Because that’s what it means to be an ally — to not put the labor on the group that that is already feeling the impact and the oppression. And what we found was that many of our employees, for the first time had to wrestle with like, what it means to be white. What it means to be in a situation where you are seeing someone who looks like you take the life of someone who looks like me. So we really tried to switch the actual narrative and the conversation to not add more labor and trauma on our Black employees. (Timestamp: 1:10)

Lee said she was a bit skeptical at the time because we’ve seen this type of response before in light of the violent killings of Black people.

Lee: And then within a few weeks you see that interest and that focus wane once more. So I was skeptical that the enthusiasm would continue and enthusiasm in a way to try to solve all of our racism problems in a short period of time. I was surprised that it did continue. (Timestamp: 3:31)

In her conversations with her counterparts at Uber, Lee said she wanted to make sure that the company didn’t make such a wide commitment that “those commitments became nothing more than virtue signaling at the end of the day.”

Lee: I said to my leadership, if you really want to come out and make some bold statements about being anti-racist, I’m going to create almost a litmus test to make sure that you really understand what that means because I don’t want to go up as a company to say we’re going to be anti-racist and then do nothing about it because that just relives and rehashes the injustices that we’ve seen in the past. (Timestamp: 4:25)

So when Uber’s first post-anti-racism diversity report came out, and it showed Uber’s Black employee base declined, Lee said at the time that was not acceptable.

Lee: I think part of the commitments we made around being really anti-racist is transparency at all costs, even when we know that transparency could potentially make us look, not reflect as positively on us. So the question did go back, as you know, when we were putting together our diversity report is, ‘wow, these numbers are not where we want them to be. None of us are happy about it.’ But in our commitment of being accountable, you know, we want the public to hold us accountable. We want people to hold accountable, we want to be accountable to our workforce, we’re going to be as transparent about why that decline in black employees happened and underrepresented people happened, what the cause was and what we are doing. (Timestamp: 6:11)

• Despite commitment to anti-racism, Uber’s Black employee base has decreased

On being early in the DEI journey

Netflix, despite having previously reported diversity numbers, only released its first official diversity report this year. That’s partly because the team has only been in place for the last three years, Davis said.

Davis: So we’re still at the awareness building phase, like from a foundational standpoint, and we’re really trying to double down so that folks know why I&D matters. Like, what it actually is, and how it impacts all of us. Because oftentimes, folks think of all of these isms and phobias as something that happens to other people. But if we can really make folks understand that there’s a cost to all these isms, and phobias to all of us individually, interpersonally, culturally, and and institutionally, then it makes it easier down the road when folks start to feel somewhat fatigued, right? Because there is always that fatigue factor. So we’re really trying to get ahead of that. And to have folks to think through like, what is in it for me, and what is in it for my colleagues. (Timestamp: 17:33)

• The future of diversity and inclusion in tech

Sharing the DEI load

Too often does the work of DEI fall on just a handful of people. At Netflix, Davis said it’s important that there is a shared load, and that all of its leaders are able to speak to the importance of diversity at the company.

Davis: And I would say our other largest goal is to make sure that all of our leaders can speak to the importance of AI and be more than just a talking point. So how do we build a model that’s a train the trainer model, where each of our leaders has a one to one inclusion coach, which requires them to have monthly sit downs with their inclusion partner, where they go on a real intensive journey, so that they can understand how does their leadership style need to evolve and adapt and expand and flex to meet the needs of a larger set of individuals and not the historical ones who folks have engaged with? And we found that to put our leaders on the spot, so that when someone calls me to give a talk, I can say ‘No, our COO Greg Peters is just as competent and capable to sit on this panel about inclusion as I am.’ And we feel that we’re modeling and signaling to our entire organization that this is not just a nice to have, but it’s part and parcel to your success as an employee, as a leader and to our success as an organization. (Timestamp: 18:26)

On Prop 22’s impact on people of color

Prop 22 went into effect in California earlier this year after a contentious battle where one side, including Uber, Lyft and other tech companies, wanted workers to remain independent contractors and the other side wanted gig workers to be made employees and therefore entitled to more benefits. Prop 22’s passage was a win for Uber and its counterparts, which collectively spent north of $200 million on its campaign efforts.

Some have wondered how Uber can reconcile its commitment to anti-racism given that many gig workers are people of color. Lee, however, pushed back on that characterization:

Lee: I would challenge some of those that believes that Prop 22 actually disproportionately hurts people of color. If you actually look at the way the civil rights organizations that came out in support of Prop 22, the NAACP of Northern California and Hawaii came out in support of Prop 22, most of the Hispanic civil rights organizations as well. (Timestamp: 24:59)

Prop 22, of course, was in response to the passage of AB 5, which set new standards of worker classification that were designed to make it harder for companies to classify workers as independent contractors.

Lee: And you looked at the way those exceptions were being made to AB 5, you saw that the exceptions were disproportionately being made for those IC — you know, independent contractor roles that were predominantly represented by white workers. And they were all getting exceptions from AB 5. And then you look at the roles that were predominantly represented by people of color, especially underrepresented people of color, and those roles were not getting exceptions in AB 5. […] For me, how I define racism isn’t based on intent but it’s based on impact. And when I see that kind of level of disparate, disproportionate impact, that’s when I think about, you know, what is racist or not. So I would challenge this notion that [Prop 22] actually disproportionately hurt people of color, especially given that we had civil rights organizations that said we support Prop 22. So, I don’t think there’s anything that really needs to be reconciled, from my perspective and from the organization’s perspective. (Timestamp: 24:59)

• CA Supreme Court denies lawsuit challenging Prop 22’s constitutionality
• Uber lobbies for ‘Prop 22’-style gig work standards in the EU
• An even bigger battle for gig worker rights is on the horizon

You can read the entire transcript here.

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Gig workers and warehouse workers have become essential in a pandemic-ravaged economy. In California, a law went into effect earlier this year that makes gig workers independent contractors. Meanwhile, Amazon warehouse workers in Alabama are actively seeking to form a union to ensure better protections at the workplace.

At TC Sessions: Justice, I spoke with Gig Workers Collective co-founder and organizer Vanessa Bain, The Congress of Essential Workers founder and former Amazon warehouse worker Christian Smalls and National Council for Occupational Safety and Health Co-Executive Director Jessica E. Martinez about what’s next for gig workers and tech’s contractor workforce, and what battles lie ahead for these essential workers.

On the Amazon union drive

Amazon warehouse workers in Bessemer, Alabama are in the midst of a historic union drive. Smalls, who was fired from his job at an Amazon warehouse in Staten Island last year after speaking out about the lack of personal protective equipment, told me he recently spent a few days in Bessemer.

The building opened up when Coronavirus started. When New York City became the epicenter, that’s when Bessemer facility opened up. So the union got a head start on talking to workers. So that’s a gem for anybody or any union that plans on trying to unionize the building — that you have a facility in your community that’s about to open up, when opening, that’s the best time to connect with workers. That’s what happened last year. And as a result, the workers had seen what happened to the workers that were unprotected and they don’t want that. They want better for themselves. And they rightfully desrve that, especially in Alabama. It’s a right to work state, a state with no state minimum, obviously a red state. So I think it’s a lot of intangibles against them. But these workers now see the window of opportunity for change systemically. (Timestamp: 4:40)

Meanwhile, President Biden recently came out in support of the unionizing efforts in Bessemer.

I would hope that he is a man of his word. He’s a pro-union guy. He ran his campaign off of that, saying he’s a union guy and unions need to be strong, and he supports unions all the way. It was powerful to see that the President, the man, the highest plateau in the country, support the union. (Timestamp: 13:11)

[…] But once again, like Vanessa said, I don’t put all my eggs in that basket either. I just want to hold him accountable. Make sure that, you. know, we see this all the way through to the end. Even if Alabama is not successful, if we were to try again, in other locations, other parts of the country, that we have the support of the highest power in the country, that is the most powerful thing that will resonate with workers. So it’s good to see that it’s happening now. (Timestamp: 14:17)

• Amazon warehouse workers to begin historic vote to unionize
• Amazon faces lawsuit alleging failure to provide PPE to workers during pandemic
• NY AG sues Amazon over treatment of warehouse workers

On the effects of Prop 22

Already, Prop 22 has affected industries outside of tech. In December, supermarket chain Albertsons began replacing delivery drivers with contractors and hundreds of employees in California were swapped for DoorDash workers, Bloomberg reported. Meanwhile, tech companies have spoken about implementing Prop 22-like legislation in other parts of the country. Martinez described how some California residents who voted to pass Prop 22 thought they were supporting workers for better access to rights.

And unfortunately, you have workers who have possibly died. We have a California rideshare driver who died from COVID-19 last month. His independent classification means his family will receive no workers’ compensation. That is a huge impact to workers and the reality of how it impacts day to day life for workers and in the midst of a pandemic. So I share that, because Prop 22 sets the tone, again, for what could happen nationally. (Timestamp: 17:00)

Meanwhile, Bain said she sees the passing of Prop 22 as a failure of “our entire structure of economy.”

And we have really allowed tech to run rampant under this pretense that somehow it’s innovative, and especially within the gig economy. I mean, it’s the opposite of innovative, right? Like it’s feudalism on your phone, right? It’s 1-800 dial listserv. So it’s like, they’re not doing anything new that justifies creating an entirely different classification of labor than existed before, which is what Prop 22 did, right? It literally created this category of marketplace contractor that retains neither the protections of an independent contractor nor an employee. And allowing, you know, companies to write their own laws in this way is a systemic failure. (Timestamp: 18:57)

• An even bigger battle for gig worker rights is on the horizon
• Gig workers in San Francisco are mostly people of color and many are immigrants, according to survey
• Ex-Postmates VP of global public policy on the future of gig work

On the PRO Act

There’s legislation in the U.S. Senate right now that aims to make it easier for workers to organize and form unions in the country. The Protecting the Right to Organize Act seeks to change labor laws in favor of giving workers more power.

Bain spoke about the importance of getting the PRO Act across the line in light of the passing of Prop 22 in California.

These things shouldn’t be at the mercy of who happens to be, you know, held to a position. These are things that should be codified and enshrined really in law. And things that should be consistent and stable protections that people can rely on and count on. (Timestamp: 20:22)

Martinez explained how the PRO Act aligns with the work she’s doing at COSH. The organization recently released a national agenda for worker safety and health, along with some recommendations.

We want stronger safety laws, tougher enforcement, including a mandatory emergency standard to prevent the spread of infectious disease. And again, this is federally so if there is an ETS or an emergency [temporary] standard pass, it applies all over and impacts all kinds of workers, stronger protections against retaliation. (Timestamp: 07:53)

Martinez added:

Employers will funnel resources to try to scare tactics to scare workers from organizing, demanding safer workplaces, job security, and so forth. [The agenda] also includes workers are included in all policy decisions. We believe strongly that workers, more than anyone, understand the job, know the solutions and controls to health and safety issues, and also equity and Inclusion to end the misclassification and better protections for temporary gig workers. Paid sick and family leave for workers also worker centered health protocols, including health for high risk workers and getting access to vaccines. And we want to confront the workplace effects of climate change. Finally, also prevent chemical catastrophes and harmful exposure. […] With that said, this is not working in isolation. It works in collaboration with laws, we’re hoping that will pass, such as the PRO Act, allowing workers to gain bargaining power when organizing, essentially giving them the ability to negotiate with the employer get access to benefits again, such as some job security paid sick leave workers comp and so forth. (Timestamp: 8:23)

You can read the entire transcript here.